Bluegrass Tom

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Posts by Bluegrass Tom

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  20

  The Watchtower Society - 50% Share holder of Military Company?

  by stevenyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  while searching google for some research i stumbled across this .

  http://www.sec.gov/archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299302000371/form10k.txt.

  in this document it mentions rand camengine corp. is a privately held company whose stock is reportedly owned 50% by.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  RescueMe:

  Good work! Thanks for the efforts. How can I get a document independent of this website with this information? I can't reveal that I got it here.
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  5

  WT 2-1-05 2004 Service Year Report

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is some analysis that you won't hear anybody say at the wt study on march 13, 2005 when the 2004 service year report is discussed.. usa.

  in 1993 there were 926,914 peak publishers.

  in 2004 there are 1,019,696 peak publishers.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Here is some analysis that you won't hear anybody say at the WT study on March 13, 2005 when the 2004 Service Year Report is discussed.

  USA

  In 1993 there were 926,914 peak publishers. In 2004 there are 1,019,696 peak publishers. This would appear to be an increase over the 10 year period. However in this period 410,828 were baptized. This would mean that the 1993 peak of 926,914 should have grown to 1,328,742. If that theoretical total is adjusted for a death rate of 1% it changes to 1,315,455. That is approximately how many publishers there should be in the USA. But there are 1,019,696. This means that something happened to 295,759 publishers (1,315,455-1,019,696). This is a decline to me not an increase. Lets look at Britain, Germany and France.

  Britain

  In 1993 there were 127, 395 peak publishers. In 2004 there are 125, 546. This is a straight decrease of 1,849.If you add in the number baptized of the period which is 39,863 the number becomes a decrease of 41,712, unadjusted for a deathrate. This is a decrease of 32.7% since 1993.

  France

  In 1993 there were 122,254 peak publishers. In 2004 there are 118,228. This is a straight decrease of 4, 026.If you add in the number baptized of the period which is 38,852 the number becomes a decrease of 42,878, unadjusted for a deathrate. This is a decrease of 35.0% since 1993.

  Germany

  In 1993 there were 166,505 peak publishers. In 2004 there are 165,201. This is a straight decrease of 1,304.If you add in the number baptized of the period which is 53,061 the number becomes a decrease of 54365, unadjusted for a deathrate. This is a decrease of 32.6% since 1993.

  It is clear to me from studying this subject (the above is but a small sampler of data) that there is a general decline in membership. The Great Crowd came and went. I don't see too meny converts coming in. I think most of the baptisms are the children of believers, who leave sometime in adolescence or young adulthood. 1975, the generation, a world that has not shown any signs of ending, a robust global economy, and information available from the internet is changing how people think and assisting them in re-evaluating what they are doing.
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  12

  WT-1-1-05 Study Article-New Light?

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i noticed in the article that was studied on sunday february 13, 2005 an interesting point.

  at least interesting to me.. paragraph 15 states in part: " they acknowlege that riches can make life comfortable, but they know the wealth does nothing for their everlasting future".

  please note the use of the term everlasting future (like after a ressurection), and not everlasting life are used.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  I noticed in the Article that was studied on Sunday February 13, 2005 an interesting point. At least interesting to me.

  Paragraph 15 states in part: " They acknowlege that riches can make life comfortable, but they know the wealth does nothing for their everlasting future". Please note the use of the term everlasting future (like after a ressurection), and not everlasting life are used.

  Also in Paragraph 15 it states: " When a Christian dies, the only thing of real value that he possesses is his relationship with Jehovah and with Jesus Christ"

  Here they did not talk about if a christian dies or living in into the paradise, but when they die. I think that this is an evidence of the WT shifting away from the idea of living through to the paradise, since the 1914 thing has gone up in smoke, and who knows how long the "generation" could be. They are telling people to be prepared to die in this system of things.

  This will be one of the articles that would be referenced in the future when they say that "We never told you that you would live into the new system". This goes along with "We never told you the end would come in 1975", or "the generation would be a maximum of 70-80 years after 1914", etc.

  Perhaps the concept that "Millions Living will never die" is slowly being changed.
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  39

  what we used to call "privileges"

  by in a new york bethel minute in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  of all the privileges only brothers may have, doing mics seemed to be one of the most tedious.

  it was definitely something you could graduate from... but why?

  when i was the sound guy, it was always so hard to get brothers to do the mics.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  The simple way to avoid doing anything such as microphones, attendant, platform, sound, etc is to smile when they tell them that you have been approved by the Body to do such tasks, and then don't wear a suit jacket to the meeting. Just wear a tie. You are prohibited from doing anything in the Congregation without wearing a coat and tie.
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  18

  How do you think the society would react if...

  by truth_about_the_truth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as an active witness, you won the lottery and offered to contribute a large portion of that to the worldwide work?.

  - take the money and cover up your "wrongdoing"?.

  - take the money and df you?.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  They would take the money so fast you couldn't see it leave your hand.

  Then they would "encourage" the Body of Elders to look into the accusation of your gambling. If the Committee could verify that you did in fact gamble (buying a Lottery ticket) you would be reproved. public reproof if it was common knowlege in the Congregation, private reproof if it was not common knowlege. If you were unrepentant, you would be disfellowshipped.
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  38

  Is it legal for the WT to Disassociate someone?

  by confusedjw in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since it is well defined that when the wt kicks you out you are disfellowshipped - there action.

  and that when you want to leave you disassociate - your action.

  how is it that the wt can da you?

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  Bluegrass Tom

  This is what I know on this subject. It may prove helpful.

  The only way a "Disassociation" can be done is if the person does it. They write a letter to the Body of Elders simply stating that they no longer wish to be considered a JW. Thats it. An announcement is made at the next Service Meeting and it is over for ever. If the person wants to come back, the procedure is the same as for a disfellowshipped person. They attend meetings only at the KH for a period of time. No one can speak to them except an Elder who is trying to determine their status. After sitting in the back row for a period of time (6-12 months), the person writes a letter to the Body asking for reinstatement. The Body forms a Judicial Committee to meet with the person and discuss reinstatement. If the Committee feels that the person is repentant, and is okay to be admitted to the Congregation (living their life properly, etc) they reinstate the person. The reinstatement is announced at the next Service Meeting by the Chairman of the Judicial Committee.

  If and when the Body of Elders wants to have someone removed from membership in the Congregation due to repeated unrepentant wrongdoing they are "Disfellowshipped". The Body cannot Disassociate a person. They can only Disfellowship them.
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  8

  JW sex offender database

  by curlygirl in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i read recently that the society has a database of pedophiles in the cong.

  does anyone have any information on the subject?

  documentation?

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Curly:

  There are various websites, newspaper articles (check the Guardian), and threads here that indicate that the WTB&TS World Headquarters maintains a list of names of members who have some involvement in sex offense as perpetrators. The number is reported to be around 23,000 +/-. The Society will neither confirm or dispute this.
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  51

  Some JWs Are "In The Closet"

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by that, i mean, some witnesses will not just now "out" themselves because of various fears and concerns.

  some of us are still "in the closet".

  so to speak, because we're not ready to expose ourselves to the "loving brothers", just yet---at least not 100 %.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Minimus:

  I usually don?t respond to threads, because I don?t really have anything to say beyond what others have already posted, and there are some really smart people out there like Blondie and Neo who say it all very succinctly, and much better than I could. However, I do want to contribute to your thread because I sympathize with your state of mind. Here are a few general things to keep in mind that may prove helpful to you.

  You are not required to say or do anything you don?t want to, and don?t allow any of the Brothers or any other human to manipulate you into doing or saying anything you feel uncomfortable with. This is true for any Publisher or human being.

  You have freedoms and rights under

  The WTB&TS contends that when a person willfully becomes baptized and wants to be known as a JW (by publicly answering the baptism questions), they place themselves under the ecclesiastical authority of the religion. This means that the person must follow all of the rules that the Society has developed, if the person wants to remain a JW. This is the whole point. If you don?t want to be a JW anymore, remove yourself from that authority by controlling your actions and speech. What you think and believe is only your business. You don?t have to tell anyone anything more than what you wish. You don?t have to write a letter of Disassociation if you don?t want to. A letter of Disassociation is part of the ecclesiastical authority. It is a procedure created by the WTB&TS for their expediency. You actually remove yourself from the authority by not doing it.

  If you are not at the meetings, in the field service, associating with members of the Congregation, or generally know as a JW in the area, you are not a threat to the Congregation and they will leave you alone particularly as time passes. If any of the Brothers call on you, you can politely tell them that you wish to be left alone, and you will let them know when and if you desire their help. They are obligated to do this, unless they are pursuing you in a judicial matter. Even then, you don?t have to meet or talk to anybody. If you tell them you will initiate a legal action against them unless they leave you alone, you will see how fast they forget about you. Their direction is to avoid lawsuits and logically so.

  If you want to keep it light and go to a meeting or two here and there (they are free and open to the public only at the KH) and say hello to people that you might bump into out in public, just be cautious what you openly say to members of the Congregation pertaining to what you believe or don?t believe. Control your options. If you need to vent or have a sounding board for your head, get a non-JW therapist.
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  78

  Research on the validity of 1914

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

  they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

  to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Here are a few facts that I have recently discovered by doing some research.

  The Watchtower Society uses the date of 539 B.C.E as the date that Cyrus took over Babylon. they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time. I find that only the Watchtower uses the term "absolute date". No one else, scholars, historians, etc. use this term. At least that's what my research reveals.

  From the date of 539 B.C.E the Watchtower Society allows 2 years for the Jews to return to Jerusalem and start re-building the Temple. This brings us to 537 B.C.E. This is okay. Then they apply the 70 years of desolation mentioned in Jeremiah and arrive at the date of 607 B.C.E as the date that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. From 607 B.C.E they count the 2,520 years (prophecy) and get to 1914. They count back from 539 B.C.E to a point in time, and then go forward from that point to get to 1914.

  The problem here is that although history agrees with the 539 B.C.E date, history fixes the destruction of Jerusalem as 586 B.C.E, not 607. Every encyclopedia, textbook, scholar, historian and University I could find all agree on and use the date of 586 B.C.E as the date for the destruction of Jerusalem not 607. Only the Watchtower uses the 607 date.

  From this I have concluded that the date of 607 is not the real date for the destruction of Jerusalem but one that only fits with the seventy years prophecy. Jerusalem never lay "desolated" for 70 years. It was only desolate from 537 to 586. That is 49 years. I seem to think that the watchtower used only the 539 date and ignored the 586 date because it didn't fit with what they wanted; the 70 years, the 2,520 years and 1914. 1914 was the goal, and they backed-into the dates to make them work. To do this they had to ignore 586 B.C.E which is the real date for the destruction of Jerusalem.

  Therefore, if Jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place? When does the 2,520 years start? 1914 can't be correct. 1914 is based on 607, and 607 is only mathematical, not actual. 586 is the real date.
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  12

  Re-post of validity of 1914 date

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  something went wrong the first time.

  here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Something went wrong the first time.

  Here are a few facts that I have recently discovered by doing some research.